What Ifs

I enjoy theorising and whatnot, so I thought I’d make a thread of our greatest “what ifs” when it comes to CW. Here’s some of mine:

1. What if Hannah had stayed longer?
I feel like Hannah leaving so soon was a massive missed opportunity, as she has an incredible voice (listen to ANÚNA’s The First Day to hear her as a soloist) and she doesn’t seem to have done much since then. Obviously, Hannah staying longer does mean that Mairéad C wouldn’t have come back, which is sad, but this does have Hannah being our token classical singer member, like how Mairéad is now. Interestingly, I feel like although Muirgen is technically Mairéad’s replacement, I think she’s much more Éabha’s replacement in spirit, and I think Hannah would then be Mairéad’s replacement in spirit. Mairéad ending up replacing Hannah after the 2022 Symphony tour only furthers my point. Hannah staying would also mean that we would’ve had the 20th anniversary lineup sort of be a joining of the old members with the brand new, which I feel would be wonderful symbolically.

This is, of course, assuming that Emma would have still replaced Megan when Megan left. It’s possible that we could’ve had Mairéad come back to replace Megan. This would presumably cause quite the butterfly effect, where we neither would’ve gotten Emma nor Caitríona joining us. And given that we generally have the singers divided into “Celtic” and “Pop/Classical” singers, this means we would’ve either had Hannah or Mairéad being sort of the crossover one, similar to how Lisa L or Megan were.

2. What if David Downes never left?
I don’t quite know this one for myself, all I know is that Destiny would’ve been very different.

I’ll be back later with more, but I’m out with my family so this is all I can muster for now.

IDK how to phrase my question, but I have always wondered something like this.

- What if the CW ladies never had children? Or what if CW were all "male", or men raised kids in our society?
You know what I mean. CW has had 21 members. By comparison Celtic Thunder has had only 12 (one due to death), and most of their current members are long-timers (including 2 original members). How long would some of the original members stayed together? How long would the VOA lineup stayed together (Susan, Eabha, Tara)?

IDK how to phrase my question, but I have always wondered something like this.

- What if the CW ladies never had children? Or what if CW were all "male", or men raised kids in our society?
You know what I mean. CW has had 21 members. By comparison Celtic Thunder has had only 12 (one due to death), and most of their current members are long-timers (including 2 original members). How long would some of the original members stayed together? How long would the VOA lineup stayed together (Susan, Eabha, Tara)?

That is an interesting thought. It does bother me how, even in more feminist circles, people act as though women can’t have a career and children at the same time, so I do wish that attitude was different. Granted, performing is pretty different from your average 9-5 job, and many musicians have spoken about the toll it takes on their family lives to constantly be touring.

These sorts of discussions of member changes are always interesting to me because they create a sort of butterfly effect. For example, Alex probably would’ve never left, so we probably wouldn’t have gotten Lisa Lambe. (I can sense @rfcw bursting at the seams at the thought of Alex being in Believe.). Here’s another question: if Alex never left, would we still have a five member lineup? Or would we have gone to four when Lynn left and the Believe lineup would have been Alex, Chloë, Lisa K, and Máiréad N? Though, granted, if none of the members had any kids, we might not have Alex at all, as there would’ve been no need for someone new in 2008 and someone entirely different would’ve replaced Órla. We wouldn’t have had Deirdre, and probably not Hayley as well. We may not have even had Lynn, as Méav’s young family was reportedly a factor in her leaving.

Now, if Lisa K still had her first three kids, I think she still would’ve left sometime after Believe. I don’t view her leaving as being because she had Ellie, but more as her wanting to pursue other paths and being pregnant was a good opportunity to leave, and I think what Lisa K said after she left corroborates that. We may still have gotten her for the Believe tours, but by the time Emerald rolled around, we probably would have Susan.

Speaking of Susan, I think she’d still be gone by now, as thirteen years is a long time, but we still would’ve gotten her for Ancient Land and possibly even Postcards From Ireland as well. We’d also still have Emma and Tara if they never had kids, which makes me rather sad that this didn’t happen as I really miss them 😭 I think that having your favourite member leave a musical group is probably a canon event for most teenagers, though (a member left the KPOP group Enhyphen and the fans have been spiralling), so at least we are fulfilling the plot right now 😔✊.

I’d like to hope that Tara left similar to Lisa K did, using her pregnancy as more of a way to pursue a solo career and not being a SAHM, because I do miss her, but obviously, what’s most important is that she’s happy, and obviously none of us really have any say on what she does with her life (just putting a disclaimer so I don’t sound weird or anything). Emma seems to have gotten back to performing, so hopefully the same could happen for Tara.

Another question is if we would’ve had any members who left for other reasons coming back. Most members who had kids did so after their tenures with CW, but I wonder if we would’ve gotten, say, Éabha returning if she didn’t have kids. I have heard rumours that she said she’d come back someday, but I’m not sure if that’s true or just wishful thinking, but it’s unlikely that it would happen right now as she has three three and under if I recall correctly.

wow, so much to read, I don’t know where to begin

love this subject!!!!

Hayley was a Guest not a replacement or fill in ever!?
So our friend stars at dawn mentioning we probably would never gotten Hayley, now wasn't Hayley being brought in was as a guest, an addition, oh I see what you mean, you may be referring to her in touring as she alternated with Meav. Wasn't the reason they alternated was to have Hayley participate and not Hayley filling in for some Meav not available absent dates.

(I can sense @rfcw bursting at the seams at the thought of Alex being in Believe.). Here’s another question: if Alex never left, would we still have a five member lineup? Or would we have gone to four when Lynn left and the Believe lineup would have been Alex, Chloë, Lisa K, and Máiréad N?

Theory on Alex and or Lynn Departing or Didn't!
Now with mentioning Alex for Believe, OH MY GOSH! YEP YEP YEP
now to say we wouldn't have gotten Lisa Lambe, now now if Lynn left then we would got a lineup with Lisa L, Alex, Chloe, Lisa K and Mairead N had they stayed as four you think. Now you must be referring to if the toll of touring never happened then of course Lynn wouldn't be going anywhere because she and Alex would have more miles to run unless Lynn left to pursue other things. If Alex left to pursue other things and not because of her son would the lineup be Lynn, Chloe, Lisa K and Mairead N.
Now if the lineup was five still then it would made sense to have either:

Susan, Lynn, Lisa K, Chloe and Mairead N

Eabha, Lynn, Lisa K, Chloe and Mairead N

Eabha, Alex, Lisa K, Chloe and Mairead N

Lisa L, Alex, Lisa K, Chloe and Mairead N

but I mean say neither Alex and Lynn left and later one of the originals left then we doing math replacing Susan, or Eabha or Mairead C with Alex and Lynn still in the lineup!

Another question is if we would’ve had any members who left for other reasons coming back. Most members who had kids did so after their tenures with CW, but I wonder if we would’ve gotten, say, Éabha returning if she didn’t have kids. I have heard rumours that she said she’d come back someday, but I’m not sure if that’s true or just wishful thinking, but it’s unlikely that it would happen right now as she has three three and under if I recall correctly.

Appearences and Return's if no Children*
Whoah, whoah, whoah,
yes, if member's who left didn't have children such an example as notably Lynn Hilary, would we absolutely (to me ) have seen appearences of Eabha back in some form like Chloe, Susan, Alex, Lynn filling in for tours, or guest on a Special again like Meav.

Chloe Agnew only been featured in Touring the 15th Anniversary Tour and 20th Special only!
Let's remember also that in way's the lockdown's and covid brought the chance for Chloe to be featured recorded in a new album and DVD Special Postcards from Ireland which if that didn't happen would Chloe's appearence would only be for the 15th Anniversary Tour because Chloe repeats we have to finish it off to give what the fans wanted for that year which Chloe unlike Mairead C was a significant reason in 2020 many may of been looking for purchasing and attending a Celtic Woman Tour at that time.

I thought that Hayley had originally been considered as a replacement for Méav, but then Méav came back and they decided to do ANJ with both of them, hence why it was Hayley and Méav who swapped during the tour. I could very easily be wrong, though, as I only got heavily into CW a few months ago.

The lineup with Lisa K, Lisa L, Alex, Chloë, and Máiréad N was what I would assume a five-person lineup with Alex would be, but if they still decided to make the four-member change, then we wouldn’t have gotten Lisa L, at least not then. What would be interesting about the aforementioned possible four-singer lineup is that we could sort of divide with Chloë and Lisa L having somewhat similar voices and that would then leave Lisa K and Alex as the other vocal side, this could be especially interesting as there’s a lot of duets in Believe. Alex, Lisa L, and Lisa L would be very fitting for Believe as they’re all musical theatre alumni. Imagine the potential for that with Alex! 🤩 What if she sang something like Don’t Cry For Me Argentina? (I don’t know if anyone could compare to Rachel Zegler’s version—seriously, look that up!—but Alex could sure come close!)

If we hadn’t gotten Lisa L and went to just three vocalists, then that might leave some interesting changes to Believe and Emerald. I doubt we would’ve had A Spaceman Came Travelling or Black Is The Colour; those all seem much more Lisa songs than Alex songs to me. This also leaves some questions for Emerald—I could see Alex singing Bridge Over Troubled Waters, but I couldn’t really see the same for Dúlamán, although she would be in the slot to sing it…it just seems rather different from the material she covered with CW and what she sings now…we could possibly get a retirement of the song until we got another Seaweed Queen opportunity (I told you I was stealing that term!  ), or we could have a group orchestration for Emerald or something. I could see that as Emerald had some very unique arrangements.

The interesting thing about questioning “what if so-and-so stayed longer?” Is that this could very easily cause a sort of butterfly effect. Let’s say Alex decided to stay until 2016. Would Lisa L or Éabha be available? Would we ever get the membership pipeline we’ve seen with Alex-Lisa L-Éabha-Chloë-Hannah-Mairéad C? Even the only consistent vocalist pipeline (Lisa K-Susan-Megan-Emma-Caitríona) could be impacted by this. So it’s kind of hard to know because who we know now as replacements may have been caught up in other projects when they canonically auditioned, if that’s even how they do it now. I know some members like Mairéad C and Éabha auditioned, Órla submitted tapes to David Downes, but I’d imagine some members like Lisa K or Chloë were selected beforehand, and I don’t know if they’d bother to audition for temporary members (i.e., Deirdre, Hannah, and maybe Ciara)

As for the Éabha thing, that probably was a stupid thought on my part, I just got caught up in this one YouTube comment that said she would come back someday. Now, I kind of doubt that regardless of kids she’d come back right now, as she’s currently doing a lot of stuff that may be put off by her being with CW.

That’s an interesting observation about Chloë. We also probably would have a more active CW nowadays, as I think COVID really hindered them. It’s odd to think about PFI without Chloë, as her returning is one of the most iconic things about the album in my opinion. I do wonder if many aspects of the album would’ve been better, though. The mixing might be better and hopefully PFI would be longer, and Megan wouldn’t be the only vocalist with multiple solos.

With Chloë gone, that does beg the question of who would be in her place. If we use the canonical members, then that would be Hannah, and it would be incredible to get her on an album, but it’s probably more likely that we’d get someone entirely new.

Although, maybe Mairéad wouldn’t have left (if she had, I’d assume it was right after the Celebration tour) and Muirgen would be Chloë’s replacement. I wonder if that would have impacted her songs at all, as Muirgen currently fills the Celtic singer role, and Chloë was very much a pop/classical singer, but I’d assume not and Mairéad would be the pop/classical singer with Megan occasionally filling in on that part. Mairéad had a similar role to Chloë, yet Muirgen has still sung very Celtic songs as her replacement.

 Thought's on Dulaman 20th Anniversary Lineup Effect!

 Since Seaweed Queen and Dulaman has been brought up, something has brought to my attention yesterday.
 As I was reflecting on all these lineup changes, had Megan stayed for the 20th Special and Tour and so did Hannah
 would it been so cool to see Megan standing front and center as the veteran CW member just like how Mairead C totally was for the 20th Special.

This dawned on me and was wondering about Dulaman on the 20th which was so prominent on Mairead C taking the intro lead makes sense being she is a seaweed Queen, had Megan stayed say for example and so did Hannah then who would had done it. I can see Muirgen the one doing it for Muirgen took upon the seaweed Queen the last tour and Hannah and Megan would then appear in duet is my guesses. Do we think Megan would do it, she never done Dulaman, or Hannah as a way to introduce a new face which leads to if Mairead C didn't come back would Emma do it. Imagine if Megan left and then you'd have Muirgen opening Dulaman and then two new faces Hannah and Emma doing the duo part! Is it in ways Dulaman an intro group song specifically because Mairéad's return? Well we would say no because Queen of all Queen finest Magesty Meav is there! 

Now since the subject is Dulaman here. Alex many of you may not know became a seaweed queen for one month in June 2015 during the 10th Anniversary Tour when Lynn had finished her run and Alex took over filling her spot. There only as I've found one really short clip from red rocks but it cuts ends so short at the beginning which wasn't dulaman but the pre song before Dulaman. If one day any clips surface to hear her rendition wow it be the best thing!

Thought's on Dulaman 20th Anniversary Lineup Effect!

 Since Seaweed Queen and Dulaman has been brought up, something has brought to my attention yesterday.
 As I was reflecting on all these lineup changes, had Megan stayed for the 20th Special and Tour and so did Hannah
 would it been so cool to see Megan standing front and center as the veteran CW member just like how Mairead C totally was for the 20th Special.

This dawned on me and was wondering about Dulaman on the 20th which was so prominent on Mairead C taking the intro lead makes sense being she is a seaweed Queen, had Megan stayed say for example and so did Hannah then who would had done it. I can see Muirgen the one doing it for Muirgen took upon the seaweed Queen the last tour and Hannah and Megan would then appear in duet is my guesses. Do we think Megan would do it, she never done Dulaman, or Hannah as a way to introduce a new face which leads to if Mairead C didn't come back would Emma do it. Imagine if Megan left and then you'd have Muirgen opening Dulaman and then two new faces Hannah and Emma doing the duo part! Is it in ways Dulaman an intro group song specifically because Mairéad's return? Well we would say no because Queen of all Queen finest Magesty Meav is there! 

Now since the subject is Dulaman here. Alex many of you may not know became a seaweed queen for one month in June 2015 during the 10th Anniversary Tour when Lynn had finished her run and Alex took over filling her spot. There only as I've found one really short clip from red rocks but it cuts ends so short at the beginning which wasn't dulaman but the pre song before Dulaman. If one day any clips surface to hear her rendition wow it be the best thing!

Huh. I'd always thought the Dulaman (on computer again) choreography was very Meav-centred exclusively, but you're right, there's also a lot of Mairead. Granted, Mairead also just exudes a lot of charisma. I think one example of this would be I Know My Love. She has one of the best stage presences of CW in my opinion.

I feel as though there's equal opportunity for Megan, Muirgen, or Hannah to be at the centre of the Dulaman choreography (at least until Meav comes). Megan would likely be the "it girl" of CW at that point, but Muirgen had sang it as a solo before,  and Hannah's voice would be the most similar to Meav's. My guess would be that Muirgen would be the most centred...and there might be potential for her to be equal to Megan as the "face" of CW, kind of like Mairead C and Eabha in Ancient Land.

I didn't know Alex had sung Dulaman! I suppose I shouldn't have underestimated her...and she did cover more Celtic-style material when she filled in for Susan! That has our count of seaweed queens as 5, right? (Meav, Muirgen, Mairead C, Lisa L, Lynn, and now Alex), though you could also count in Tara, Emma, Kate, and Caitriona if the group numbers count. There's also a possibility that Deirdre might have covered it...

I didn't know Alex had sung Dulaman! I suppose I shouldn't have underestimated her...and she did cover more Celtic-style material when she filled in for Susan! That has our count of seaweed queens as 5, right? (Meav, Muirgen, Mairead C, Lisa L, Lynn, and now Alex), though you could also count in Tara, Emma, Kate, and Caitriona if the group numbers count. There's also a possibility that Deirdre might have covered it...

Dulaman got first introduced during the A New Journey Special so prior to that on tour Dulaman didn't exist on tour so Deirdre wasn't a seaweed queen though she might of been surely. By the way Hayley was!

Now what do you mean by you underestimated Alex. You know I really thought it would of been interesting to see what energy and passion Chloe could of brought with Dulaman don't you think.

I love the terminology of Megan would of been the "It" girl of CW. That commentor would approved and would of been the time of his life!

I didn't know Alex had sung Dulaman! I suppose I shouldn't have underestimated her...and she did cover more Celtic-style material when she filled in for Susan! That has our count of seaweed queens as 5, right? (Meav, Muirgen, Mairead C, Lisa L, Lynn, and now Alex), though you could also count in Tara, Emma, Kate, and Caitriona if the group numbers count. There's also a possibility that Deirdre might have covered it...

Dulaman got first introduced during the A New Journey Special so prior to that on tour Dulaman didn't exist on tour so Deirdre wasn't a seaweed queen though she might of been surely. By the way Hayley was!

Now what do you mean by you underestimated Alex. You know I really thought it would of been interesting to see what energy and passion Chloe could of brought with Dulaman don't you think.

I love the terminology of Megan would of been the "It" girl of CW. That commentor would approved and would of been the time of his life!

I meant underestimating Alex in that I didn’t think it was the sort of song to be in her repertoire, not that she couldn’t do it! I’m sure she was incredible singing it…though, granted, Alex could sing Baby Shark and I’d be enthralled!

Wait…HAYLEY SANG DÚLAMÁN?!?!?  Are there any videos of that, because that sounds heavenly!!!!!!!!

I meant underestimating Alex in that I didn’t think it was the sort of song to be in her repertoire, not that she couldn’t do it! I’m sure she was incredible singing it…though, granted, Alex could sing Baby Shark and I’d be enthralled!

Wait…HAYLEY SANG DÚLAMÁN?!?!?  Are there any videos of that, because that sounds heavenly!!!!!!!!

https://youtu.be/0un1Kqu1kao?si=9H77BAQzFeoeIJ_U

https://youtu.be/8gctVZN82Qs?si=X9tttAdDOrv-uQ1N

Alex on Dulaman, closest we got, Caranua

Dulaman
https://youtu.be/fNdG4BSJdQQ?si=SaFNPNlfDbw15YC2

Trailer's
https://youtu.be/t44NhRnDAME?si=To9Jg9aNbgPn3CwZ
https://youtu.be/igRv0LFbh4E?si=SyDyuIQXA7lQ4uOu

Live Performance
https://youtu.be/AqwmhOopzas?si=XqiDQ6fEFRcrVbUQ

Wow…Hayley sounds incredible!! A comment said that she sounds like Lisa Lambe, and I personally agree!

I like how Alex sounds in the CaraNua clips, although I’m not the biggest fan of the arrangement, but the bass is nice. You can never go wrong with a double bass!

Speaking of Alex, one other “what if” that I was thinking of earlier is what if some of the temporarily returning older members for tours had ended up staying permanently for the albums? What if we got Alex on Ancient Land or Lynn on Destiny?

Speaking of Alex, one other “what if” that I was thinking of earlier is what if some of the temporarily returning older members for tours had ended up staying permanently for the albums? What if we got Alex on Ancient Land or Lynn on Destiny?

Oh wow, you know what, what if Lisa Lambe stayed and perfect timing she would of been part of the 20th Anniversary Special. Oh I forgot, it was after  darn!

Speaking of Alex, one other “what if” that I was thinking of earlier is what if some of the temporarily returning older members for tours had ended up staying permanently for the albums? What if we got Alex on Ancient Land or Lynn on Destiny?

Oh wow, you know what, what if Lisa Lambe stayed and perfect timing she would of been part of the 20th Anniversary Special. Oh I forgot, it was after  darn!

Lisa L for Nollaig would be interesting, though. Sometimes throughout that album I feel that Caitríona was channeling Lisa L’s Home For Christmas spirit, especially in Auld Lang Syne. Lisa L being in her place for that song would actually be quite fitting, since it’s quite a long part and it could almost be an homage to her originally singing it as that iconic solo. We’d also still have a red-headed member!

I do wonder if they’d give Lisa L new songs or just have her sing her older ones for A New Journey. Imagine her and Mairéad duetting on Black Is The Colour!!!! 

Watching Black is The Color, I could not think of not thinking Lisa Lambe again, Caitriona kept her voice as Nollaig as such a volume that you could listen to it, God Merry Rest Gentlemen, Going Home as if Lisa L was on it, of course Lisa L would of shined in some moments with her riffs. The pre song of Dulaman, Caitriona has a special voice like Eabha worth utilizing.

Since Song's From the Heart was centered and Chloe and Lisa K and Lynn participated in a duet song and trio song added to her two solos, as Lynn deserved because she became a CW a period before Alex, if Alex had stayed she would perhaps had a broader significance within the next special Believe especially it being more under Musical Theater and Broadway where you literally have Alex Sharpe, infact imagine Alex tributing to Over the Rainbow as she was Dorothy when she was younger. She would of been a leader to that show. Lisa Lambe was breathtaking and a striking new energy, it's hard to believe how magical it be both Alex with Lisa L.

She would of had more solo or group collaboration during Lullaby. One thing comes to mind, what if Alex was on Goodnight My Angel as she was a Mother.