What does everyone think. Should High Kings concerts count as "Celtic-Woman-related" concerts?
Same question for High Kings CDs and DVDs.

Some points in favor:
- The High Kings (including multiple of their current members), have opened for Celtic Woman on tour.
- Both groups have tracks on the A Celtic Family Christmas album (although they don't perform together on any of those songs on the album).
- Both groups had David Downes as a musical director for several years.

Points against:
- As far as I know, no High Kings members have ever been in the Celtic Woman choir, so they were basically 2 separate groups that performed at the same concerts for a little while and shared a label.
- If you have everything The High Kings have ever done but the only other thing in your "solo" collection is Lisa Kelly's solo album, is that a Celtic Woman related collection or just a High Kings collection? 🤣
- If we start counting any person or group that's ever performed with Celtic Woman as "related" material, the scope of this might get out of hand. They recorded some songs with Chris De Burgh, so is all of Chris De Burgh's stuff Celtic-Woman-related then?

Other thoughts:
- It feels like the shows, albums, and DVDs of guests, such as Rebecca Winckworth and Oonagh, should be included are Celtic-Woman-related.
- The things Colm Keegan recorded with Celtic Thunder feel like they should be related because he was in the choir (and on the Songs from the Heart DVD). And likewise, if you went to a CT show with Colm in it, it's probably a CW-related show. But if you're a CT super-fan and saw Celtic Thunder 300 times and Celtic Woman 3 times, that seems like it would really de-values support of more closely related CW performers and and their work.
- We could start differentiating related-vs-unrelated content based on someone's reason for attending a show or buying an album/DVD. For example, if I buy an obscure album Méav was on because Méav was in Celtic Woman, it's a "related" album, but if I buy a High Kings album because I like the High Kings, that's not related? That introduces problems associated with subjectivity.
- Does every Secret Garden album that contains a song that Celtic Woman eventually performed count as Celtic Woman related too, because Secret Garden is the source of a lot of Celtic Woman's best songs? I think no.

In the thread about CD / DVD collections, I've tried to differentiate a little between primary works and "fringe" works (http://www.celticwomanforum.net/index.php?topic=371.msg867#msg867). Essentially, there's a distinction between the works an artist contributed significantly (especially albums/DVDs they released on their own, or in a large number of tracks such as Celtic Heart) vs works where the CW-related artist only appears in a few tracks. But even that isn't a sufficient way to classify some of these items. Also, using the "fringe" distinction for CW-related shows doesn't work well: getting to some of those shows is tough and travelling to them is expensive. That should count for something.

I've rambled enough.

What are your thoughts?

Quote from: LakersCeltics on September 21, 2023, 10:33:14 AM

Quote from: CWazyTom on September 15, 2023, 05:06:55 PM

Since today is the 19th Anniversary of the first Celtic Woman show, I'll post a riddle that's related to a different anniversary:

The original version of this song appeared on a significant music chart only in Ireland, but only a cover of this song won a Grammy. 30 years after the original was released, it was covered by Celtic Woman.

This one is harder than I originally thought. I had a few guesses, but Google says otherwise. Hmm...

Professor Tom: We may need a hint!

The song was only performed by Celtic Woman on tour and uses music as a symbol of hope and unity.

Didn't know where to post this.

There is a new "Photoshop" pic of the four ladies on this website.
https://www.browardcenter.org/events/detail/celtic-woman-2024

The funny thing is I was sitting so far back from the main stage and my eyesight sucks so much when I'm tired that I couldn't see the dresses very well. They look nice.

What are some of your favourite movie soundtracks (and optionally, why)?

I have a lot, but I'll start with the march from Raiders of the Lost Ark. My parents used to get cassette tapes from the library to play on the long drives to the cottage when I was a kid. There was an album "Best of John Williams and the Boston Pops Orchestra" and that was one of my favourites. I probably heard the Indiana Jones theme before I even saw any of the movies. It was so much fun to listen to!

Well put, Tom!  I don't feel like writing long essays about this stuff anymore, but I've saved shortcuts to your writing and Mike Brown's for future reference.  It was a really amazing event and I'm so glad I got to be there.  Éabha and Shane are geniuses for pulling this off!

Regarding the thing of artists meeting each other for the first time: a few of us got to witness Orla Fallon meeting Megan Walsh for the first time.  It was at lunch on the third day, the breakfast room.

That must have been cool for performers to essentially meet their idols. I'm sure the girls felt that way working with Chloë on Celebration / Postcards and it must have been surreal for them at the 20th Anniversary filming.
Emma: "OMG Lisa, I grew up watching you in Riverdance and then in Celtic Woman!"
Lisa: "OMG, my kids grew up idolizing you and now one of them has performed with Riverdance too!"
Emma: <blushes>

All kidding aside, it's easy to forget as fans that the people we follow today were fans too.

When we arrived in Balbriggan, Éabha greeted us and gave us our welcome packages.

A few of us ventured down to the beach, which was really nice. The tide was out and the sun reflecting off the wet sand looked stunning. We dipped our feet in the water, which was pretty chilly.

That evening, those of us who subscribe to Éabha on Patreon had dinner on the upstairs floor of the La La Restaurant (connected to the Irish Institute of Music and Song where the forum was held). Éabha moved around throughout the evening to chat with us.

Day 1

The next morning, we all gathered in the main hall to formally welcome everyone to the forum. Sean McElwain gave us a brief overview of Celtic music, its history, its evolution, and the trademark instruments. Next, Caitriona Sherlock and Fergus Cahillane, along with Éabha, gave us a greater appreciation for sean-nós singing and its relationship to Irish traditions.

After lunch, Tara Howley (former piper / whistler / fiddler with Riverdance) demonstrated how the uillean pipes work, how to assemble them, and how to play them. We didn't get to play them, but gained a greater appreciation of how challenging they are to play and how amazing Tara Howley is. That was followed by a discussion from Caitriona Frost (former Celtic Woman percussionist) about the bodhran. Lastly, Michael McGlynn gave an enlightening and eloquent presentation about choral music and singing / music in general. He shared his views on how under-appreciated and under-supported many Irish artists are at home in Ireland, particularly in choral music.

There was a choice between two workshops on Day 1:
- Vocal (lead by Michael McGlynn)
- Percussion (lead by Caitriona Frost)

The vocal workshop was apparently a lot to do with posture and breathing, which are essential foundations for safe and effective singing. I had a bad experience with singing a few years ago and it's unsafe for me to ever attempt that again for more than a couple of minutes, so I opted for the percussion workshop, which was pretty fun. Caitriona taught us the basics of playing a few drums. I think one of them was called a djembe (it looks sort of like an hour glass, with a wider top, a smaller base, and a narrow neck in the middle). We also learned how to play the bodhran.

The last activity before dinner was the "Song Circle" where we gathered in a little square amphitheater. It was an extension of one of Éabha's family tradition at the kitchen table, where everyone would share something (for example: music, poetry, or even a story). I was expecting it to be a session environment where a bunch of experienced artists performed together and we listened or sang along (well, I would have to pretend to sing along for safety reasons). Instead, artists and attendees took turns singing and performing instruments. It was a very open atmosphere, a place where people were meant to feel free to express themselves without judgement. There were participants that were surprisingly good. During at least one of the Song Circles, Éabha performed a duet of You Are My Sunshine with a relative of the person that wrote the song. A few others fans got the chance to sing with Éabha as well.

After dinner was the concert at nearby St. George's Church, just down the road from the Irish Institute of Music and Song. The stage was decorated with electric candles. Those of us that got Éabha's VIP package got to sit in the front pew. It was a really tight fit (my arm was basically hanging on the outside of the pew and I was regretting putting on those 15 extra pounds this year).

Bill Shanley (who also played guitar), did the arrangements for the concerts and they were fantastic. For the most part the sound was good, especially on nights 2 and 3. The performers did have to contend with the sound of nearby passing trains occasionally.

Tara Howley played uilleann pipes, fiddle, and whistles in the show. Her soulful rendition of Mo Ghile Mear on uilleann pipes was ridiculously amazing. She made every note sound so special.

Megan's second-act solo was one I haven't heard her perform live before: Isle of Innisfree. Mairéad Carlin's "Danny Boy," in combination with the incredible backing arrangement, was phenomenal. It was my favourite solo version of Danny Boy ever and I liked it significantly more than the Celtic Woman tour version of the song in recent years.

Mairéad Nesbitt's second act solo was There Is No Night, followed by The Butterfly. There Is No Night is one of my all-time favourite instrumental tracks and my face was once again covered in tears throughout the song.

The penultimate number was One Voice. It was nice to finally hear Megan, Éabha, and the Maireads (with others) perform this Wailin' Jennys song together.

Each show ended with a more up-beat audience-partition song: Nil Se'n La. It was a very different arrangement compared to the Songs From the Heart and Voices of Angels versions.

After the nightly concerts, there were night caps at the La La restaurant bar. It was pretty loud  and crowded in there, but it was an opportunity to hang out with people I don't see often. Some of the artists ventured in there as well.

Day 2

After an introduction to the day by Éabha, Ferbus Cahillane did a presentation. He discussed the evolution of Irish songs and styles as they have travelled across the world. Among other things, he discussed instrument construction, including the painstaking process it took him to construct a harp and a mandolin (over the course of many months). It was fascinating. He also demonstrated the use of a shruti box.

I got a chance to play his harp for a few minutes afterwards. I eventually figured out how to adjust the strings to be in the key I wanted. Each switch at the top connects to a string. Flipping the switch up or down raises or lowers the pitch of the string by a semitone. I managed to play a melody, but it was not easy. My fingers kept hitting neighboring strings or the sound from the previous note would carry on longer than intended. I'm sure practice would be beneficial, but I'll not be investing in a harp in the foreseeable future.

Mairéad Carlin presented for a while about vocal performance, her experience as an indy artist, and other topics on her mind. As many of you already know, she's highly knowledgeable and an eloquent speaker.

After lunch was a presentation by Padraic Moyles (Riverdance: executive producer / associate director and former lead dancer) and James Greenan (former lead dancer in Riverdance). They  chatted about the transformative effect of Riverdance on Irish dance at home and around the world. They also talked about  life on the road, the challenges of performing, and maintaining a high standard in every performance.

Máiréad Nesbitt chatted about the violin / fiddle and played a few tunes for us.

The choices of workshops for the day were:
- Dance (James Greenan)
- Whistle (Tara Howley)

The dance workshop was a slightly simplified but full-speed version of the signature song from Riverdance.

The afternoon wrapped up with a song circle.

While there were a lot of similarities in the set list from night to night, there were some intriguing differences in the concert on night 2. Mo Ghile Mear was performed by Caitriona Sherlock on the night. Like Tara Howley's rendition the night before, it was a slow and immensely captivating vocal performance with an incredibly effective backing arrangement. Éabha and the Maireads reprised their performance of Ride On from Destiny. James Greenan did two pretty spectacular dances as well.

Tara was in the audience for the show and chatted with a few fans afterwards. Her current contract did not allow her to participate in the show.


Day 3

The final day of the Celtic World Forum there were a pair of panel discussions. The first featured Tara Howley, Megan, and Caitriona Sherlock. The second featured an epic assemblage of talent: Megan, Mairéad Carlin, Máiréad Nesbitt, Caitriona Sherlock, Glenn Murphy, and Ronan Scolard.

The artists talked about their experiences in the music industry and the lessons they have learned. There also answered questions on a variety of topics. What resonated with me the most came in the second panel, when they discussed the challenges of performing when they're not at their best. The typical audience member doesn't care what's going on in a performer's life or how their day has been going; they just expect a performance worthy of their time and money. Each of the performers talked about times when they've struggled to hold it together on stage and  expressed that seeing familiar faces has meant so much to them on those nights. I'm so grateful to the artists on that panel for all the times they've raised me up, and it meant the world to know I can do the same for them.

Also on Day 3, Orla Fallon presented on the harp, its nuances. She shed some light on the time and effort required to in keep a harp tuned, due to the sensitivity of the wood to temperature and humidity. She also performed a few songs for us during her lecture segment.

Emma Langford presented and performed for us on Day 3. She's knowledgeable about Irish folklore and she's quite funny!

The last workshop was a choice between:
- Whistle (Tara Howley)
- Singing (Caitriona Sherlock)

Apparently the singing workshop was really cool. For safety reasons (my throat never recovered from a very brief set of singing lessons over two-and-a-half years ago), I opted for the whistle workshop. As I expected, it was for absolute beginners, but it was cool to learn from Tara Howley and I got another free whistle out of it (I have 6 of them now, 3 Ds, 2 Cs, and a low G). I also got to learn a new tune.

There were several Celtic Woman performers past and present in attendance for the final song circle, including Ronan, Mairéad Carlin, Orla, and of course, Éabha. In that song circle, Mairéad Nesbitt performed a few songs with her friend Tiffany Moore, including a duet of the Ashokan Farewell. Glenn Murphy also performed Grace. Seeing fans and performers in that setting, celebrating their love of music together, was a moment to be cherished.

The concert on night 3 was a mixture of the previous nights, with a few differences, including songs by Orla and Emma Langford. This was only my second time at an Orla performance and it was pretty special getting to hear Distant Shore and Siuil A Run in person, after years of listening on albums.

I think it would have been cool to have The Voice immediately preceding One Voice, but it was not to be.

The next morning, a few of us gathered for a final breakfast together in the La La, then began our journey's home.


Closing Thoughts

Éabha put so much effort into the inaugural Celtic World Forum. It was wonderful to be there as Éabha's dream came true. She assembled an astonishing array of talent, scheduled fun activities, and recruited interesting presenters. As Éabha mentioned during the nightly concerts, many of the artists had never performed together or met before. We were seeing that group of performers together for the first time and it's likely we will never see that same combination of performers on stage together again.

One of Éabha's intents for the Forum was to bring not only performers together, but to bring together performers and their fans. Very few people get to mingle with the artists they follow. Meet and Greets are rushed. Stage doors are chaotic and the experience is often dependent on relative assertiveness. The Celtic World Forum was place where artists and fans could connect with each other. I think that goal was generally successful, although it did feel to me at times like some of the artists remained in their own silos, especially at meal time. For instance, the artist tables were often downstairs while the attendees table was often upstairs in the restaurant. On the last night, after the concert, the artists and fans tended to sit at their own tables outside the La La. Yes, there were opportunities to talk to them during workshops, after presentations and randomly around the Irish Irish Institute of Music and Song, depending on your level of assertiveness. I think there are opportunities for even greater levels of interaction at future Celtic World Forum events, assuming the attendance doesn't balloon to an extent that it's no longer a personal experience.

As an introvert and highly anxious person, I wouldn't have even considered going to something like this a few years ago. I was the kid at summer camp that hated the whole time, and everyone around me having a great time just made me feel more miserable. I knew that an event like this was going to be challenging for me. I did quite a bit to prepare, but in spite of that, my social energy was severely depleted by day 2. StilI, I enjoyed the experience: the first of its kind, but assuredly not the last. I got to chat with fans from all over the world, most of whom I have seen online, but some of whom I had never met before in person. The diversity of attendees was a testament to the reach of Irish music and the heart that Éabha puts into all her work.

The hard work of Éabha, Shane, and the whole team paid off and they created something truly special: the first of its kind. Éabha's Celtic World Forum is expected to return as soon as 2024!


Concert Set Lists

Note: The songs and their orders may have deviated slightly from what was written on the set lists, but these are mostly correct.

Night 1

Ard Uí Chuain (Éabha and Fergus)
Sabhdh (Éabha, Fergus, and others)
Mo Ghile Mear (Tara Howley)
An Raibh tú ar an gCarraig (Fergus Cahillane)
Caledonia (Megan Walsh)
Fionghuala (John McGlynn, Fergus, and Éabha)
Ae Font Kiss (Mairéad Carlin)
Japanese Hornpipe / The Contradiction (Máiréad Nesbitt)
Téir Abhaile Riú (all)

Various (Systir)
Wildflowers (Éabha)
Lonesome Boatman (Tara Howley)
Dúlamán (Fergus Cahillane)
Isle of Innisfree (Megan Walsh)
Danny Boy (Mairéad Carlin)
There Is No Night / The Butterfly (Máiréad Nesbitt)
One Voice (Megan, Éabha, Mairéad Carlin, Tara Howley, Máiréad Nesbitt)
Níl Sé'n Lá


Night 2

An Mhaighdean Mhara (Éabha)
Oró, Sé Do Bheatha 'Bhaile
Lonesome Boatman (Tara)
Mo Ghile Mear (Caitriona Sherlock)
Caledonia (Megan Walsh)
Dance (James Greenan)
Shenandoah / The Contradiction (Máiréad Nesbitt)
Danny Boy (Mairéad Carlin)
Téir Abhaile Riú (all)

Ard Uí Chuain (Éabha and Fergus)
Sadhbh ní Bhruinneallaigh (Éabha, Fergus, and Tara Howley)
Amazing Grace (Tara Howley)
Siúil a Rún (Caitriona)
The Voice (Megan)
The Water Is Wide (Mairéad Carlin)
Ride On (Éabha, Mairéad Carlin, and Máiréad Nesbitt)
Dance (James Greenan)
There Is No Night / The Butterfly (Máiréad Nesbitt)
One Voice (all)
Níl Sé'n Lá


Night 3

Ard Uí Chuain / Sabhdh (Éabha)
Lark in the Morning (Fergus)
May It Be (Caitriona Sherlock)
Shenandoah / The Contradiction (Máiréad Nesbitt)
The Voice (Megan)
Kells Day (Emma Langford)
Ae Fond Kiss (Mairéad Carlin)
Danny Boy (Tara Howley)
Distant Shore (Orla Fallon)
Siúil a Rún (Orla Fallon)
Téir Abhaile Riú (all)

Fields of Athenry (Glenn and Ronan)
Sweet Thames Flow Softly (Mairéad and Ronan)
Mo Ghile Mear (Caitriona Sherlock)
Abigail (Emma Langford)
Oró Sé Do Bheatha 'Bhaile (Fergus)
Lonesome Boatman (Tara Howley)
Caledonia (Megan Walsh)
Isle of Hope (Éabha)
Ride On (Éabha and Mairéad Carlin)
There Is No Night / The Butterfly (Máiréad Nesbitt)
One Voice (Megan Walsh, Éabha, Mairéad Carlin, and others)
Níl Sé'n Lá

The album released today and I love it!

Tara put into words what this album means to her more eloquently than I could, so here's her post from Facebook today:
https://www.facebook.com/taramcneillmusic/posts/pfbid0L6wdLjC4oHkoUTocwwAYMhdRjbPj2ikHaPEP1JsjWzb8mAVNa1VC27nY2mrQak7Vl

I can’t believe it 🤯 I really hope you’ll listen and let us know what you think.

This whole album started because Alex and I wanted to find a way to be together more.  Our careers have often taken us apart but when we were writing this music, whether in the same room or in different countries, we were together. Our music became very much inspired by the ocean between Ireland and America and a long-distance love reaching ‘Across the Atlantic’. 

Our album includes 12 widely-varying pieces and songs that fuse energetic fiddle reels with dramatic and percussive piano, echoes of old Irish airs woven between classical virtuosity and songs that take you on a journey across the ocean to places of longing and hope. 

We really do feel there is something for everyone on this album so please spread the word.  It started as something for us… but now it is for you. 

Thank you sooo much for listening, it really means so much to us that you want to hear our music.  ‘Across the Atlantic’ the debut duo album from Tara & Alex is out in the world!


I may post more thoughts over the weekend, since I need to get ready for the High Kings concert soon, but this album was quite a pleasure to listen to and it's unlike anything else I have in my Celtic Woman fan collection (130 CDs and counting).